Curse

Grj · Jun 01, 2009, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Why are people saying they could get into groups with ursan? just before it got nerfed, i remember people started to only take certain classes, the war for example for the higher armor.

The discrimination was starting, and also who remember's if you don't have 7k for consets then basically it was gtfo... oh and if you was a monk you didn't have to pay...

glacialphoenix · Jun 01, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Why are people saying they could get into groups with ursan? just before it got nerfed, i remember people started to only take certain classes, the war for example for the higher armor.

Am I glad I'm not the only person to remember that. Ironically enough, I only noticed it cause I monked, and I monked because I didn't have the cash to pay for consets...

Bryant Again · Jun 01, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Ursan did everything it aimed to do entirely wrong: it aimed to help class discrimination by completely throwing out all the game was about while not helping discrimination in the least. Warriors were still king and "only R10's allowed" still rings pretty loud in my ears.

Thankfully, while it's still there it's gone...but it still didn't get rid of the zounds of other problems that remained in PvE.

UnChosen · Jun 01, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

How is being able to 1,2,3 whack the hell out of elite areas at light speed with little skill balanced? "Balanced" doesn't mean that all professions are equally super-powerful vs monsters.

Please stop giving PvE-ers a bad name, just look at the way the elitist PVPers are dragging it through the muck in this thread.

Even with ursan at least 60% of the group I've been in failed, people tend to take examples of organized guild groups and blow things way out of proportion.

Same with the current perma...at least half of them can't maintain the skill correctly and dies, I can't count how many UWSC I've been in fail despite how easy its supposed to be.

As for cryway...people don't follow targets. Putting these skills in the hands of pug merely improves their standing from utter failure to average.

I rather have these newbie/technically inept people crutches than being forced to discordway everything, tyvm.

DreamWind · Jun 02, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Default Name

It is irrelevant really this argument. The right difficulty sells the game to a larger group. That's a fact.

The right difficulty can be very low according to you. We only need "perceived" difficulty. Thus I was right all along and you mostly agreed with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Default Name

Then, obviously you weren't around long enough to witness the PVE epic QQs of the past.

Of course I was...to see the epic QQs over nothing. The only legit QQs over change where to things such as sole reaping, but even those QQs were rather stupid as soul reaping needed to be nerfed in both PvP AND PvE without question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Default Name

I am into business, I sell software and was in the gaming industry a couple of years back. Minimal effort to please 2 crowds residing on two sides of a coin is a win to me.

The problem? Anet hasn't pleased both crowds. Instead they have 2 subpar inbalanced products because they attempted to please both crowds instead of making the original point of their game better. Fortunately for them they are a brilliant company at so many other things that these flaws are often overlooked by many.

Bryant Again · Jun 02, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Fortunately for them they are a brilliant company at so many other things that these flaws are often overlooked by many.

It's not ANet doing anything amazing, it's just that they're able to make a pleasing, easy-to-pick-up game.

That's probably why so many posters here got so easily drawn into GW in the first place. It's pretty, atmospheric, has a fun and fluid combat, and NM is largely forgiving (I beat the whole game with Mending and Battle Rage on my bar. WEEE!). With all of those, it's gonna be played.

UndeadRoadkill · Jun 02, 2009, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I rather have these newbie/technically inept people crutches than being forced to discordway everything, tyvm.

Valid points, perhaps, but I'd take discordway over having to play with that boring-ass ursan bar with real people. Especially since I won't grind myself to sleep for the rep points.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 02, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Valid points, perhaps, but I'd take discordway over having to play with that boring-ass ursan bar with real people. Especially since I won't grind myself to sleep for the rep points.

So the problem is not so much Ursan itself but scaling with faction rank?
What if Ursan from the very start was independent of the players class with nothing else changed?

Bryant Again · Jun 02, 2009, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Would you be able to specify that a bit more, Kash?

fenix · Jun 02, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

This thread could have been answered on the first page;

Step 1) Make Guild Wars 2.
Step 2) Make the skills.
Step 3) Balance for PvP only.
Step 4) Never touch PvE. Ever. Who cares if everything is overpowered, it's PvE.
Step 5) ???
Step 6) PROFIT! (lolvaporwarecan'tprofit)

UndeadRoadkill · Jun 02, 2009, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

So the problem is not so much Ursan itself but scaling with faction rank?
What if Ursan from the very start was independent of the players class with nothing else changed?

No, I think it's boring. I wouldn't use it even if everybody got completely identical stats.

glacialphoenix · Jun 02, 2009, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

So the problem is not so much Ursan itself but scaling with faction rank?
What if Ursan from the very start was independent of the players class with nothing else changed?

I think, either way, people would have come to rely on it far too much.

Take Slaver's Exile. At first, when Ursan didn't have a foothold, people just went in with a certain set build - obbytank, etc.

Then Ursan wormed its way in, and people started demanding that you run Ursan.

After that, the bar got raised higher - r8/r9/r10 or nothing, and I think I'm being generous with the ranks here, because I saw plenty r10 or nothing groups around. You'd think that would be enough to breeze through anything even without consets - I mean, technically it is, isn't it...

Nope. Consets. Consets NOW or else THIS GROUP WILL NOT WORK. EVEN IF WE'RE ALL R10.

That is what I saw happening. The more winbuttons people got, the more people used those winbuttons and became convinced that you couldn't do without those winbuttons.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 02, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Would you be able to specify that a bit more, Kash?

Independent of the weapon, its speed or special boni and all its modifications and setting primary attributes to zero. Fixing the values of health, armor and energy.

Avarre · Jun 02, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

This thread could have been answered on the first page;

Step 1) Make Guild Wars 2.
Step 2) Make the skills.
Step 3) Balance for PvP only.
Step 4) Never touch PvE. Ever. Who cares if everything is overpowered, it's PvE.
Step 5) ???
Step 6) PROFIT! (lolvaporwarecan'tprofit)

No.

PvE must have random balance changes to ruin the lives of players who are casual.

This is 100% essential.

Bryant Again · Jun 02, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Independent of the weapon, its speed or special boni and all its modifications and setting primary attributes to zero. Fixing the values of health, armor and energy.

While an improvement, it's still throwing out nearly all the fundamentals of Guild Wars. If all ANet wanted us to do was use UB, why make any professions at all?

Mordakai · Jun 02, 2009, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Would it be better if you had to "build up" to Ursan mode either with Adrenaline, or another adrenaline-like mechanic?

And have forced downtime as well? That way, you'd have to have a build in order to get to use Ursan, and survive when it goes down. Making Ursan dependent only on Energy was the worst mistake, IMO.

The sad thing is, I wanted a "shapeshifter" in Guild Wars since Factions. But like most things, once I got it, I realized I didn't like it after all....

Default Name · Jun 02, 2009, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The right difficulty can be very low according to you. We only need "perceived" difficulty. Thus I was right all along and you mostly agreed with me.

I did no such thing.

The "difficulty" QQing is irrelevant really. If you want dynamic play, do PVP. That's all there is, nothing more nothing less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Of course I was...to see the epic QQs over nothing. The only legit QQs over change where to things such as sole reaping, but even those QQs were rather stupid as soul reaping needed to be nerfed in both PvP AND PvE without question.

Pissed off customers are not satisfied customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The problem? Anet hasn't pleased both crowds. Instead they have 2 subpar inbalanced products because they attempted to please both crowds instead of making the original point of their game better. Fortunately for them they are a brilliant company at so many other things that these flaws are often overlooked by many.

Perhaps.

One thing's for sure, not splitting would leave a narrower ground to thread.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 02, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

While an improvement, it's still throwing out nearly all the fundamentals of Guild Wars. If all ANet wanted us to do was use UB, why make any professions at all?

Yes, it hurts the "fundamentals" but what alternative is there for the high difficulty areas??

Because not everyone wants to use Ursan for everything. It gets boring and the more intelligent players then stop using it. And then the different professions come into play.

I don´t use Ursan anymore because it is boring the same goes for Discordway or Sabway. They work but it gets boring going everywhere with the three necromancer heroes. I want to use my other heroes too.

This game today is way too much about getting things done than having fun. People leaving runs because in their views it takes too long, tank dies too often etc....

E.g: You get the vanquish reward after finishing the vanquish. So if you can´t beat the last group you basically wasted your time.

Why not make it so: E.g: 400 enemies in the area. The vanquish reward would be 4000 faction points. Now how about this:
After the first 50 enemies 5% of the total vanquish reward is granted.
After 100 the next 5%.
After 150 another 5%.
After 200 you gain 10%.
250 grants another 10%
300 would be 15%.
And 350 20% and 400 the last 30%.

That way not finishing the vanquish wouldn´t be so much of a waste of time.

glacialphoenix · Jun 02, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Yes, it hurts the "fundamentals" but what alternative is there for the high difficulty areas??

The problem is, it wouldn't be used only for the high difficulty areas. You'd have people using it for the low-difficulty areas, going to the high-difficulty areas, and complaining that it's too hard.

And, well, while you wouldn't have to worry about class discrimination or rank discrimination if that's the case, you'd still have a really big issue where people would demand that you run Ursan or HB if you wanted in, you'd still have to bring a conset... where would that leave the players who got sick of running Ursan?

Yichi · Jun 02, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Default Name

Pissed off customers are not satisfied customers.

Your customer base being pissed off at no longer being able to abuse a broken mechanic in the game is hardly a valid argument...

What you and many others are now failing to realize is that if there is a nerf to a skill thats both PvE and PvP, than it is being abused in PvE as well. So many people were quick to throw the blame at PvP'rs for the PwK nerf, when it was a staple in both the discord and sabway builds that could pretty much steamroll through PvE in either difficulty. If it wasn't a problem in PvE, than they would have just make the change PvP only.